Do you lead with listening?

In the first full episode of the new podcast, I talk to internationally renowned sound expert, Julian Treasure, about ‘the most important skill for any manager’ – listening. I’ve divided our conversation into three parts:

Part1 Our relationship with sound and the link between noise and conflict;

Part2 Tools to help you pave the way to dispute resolution and conflict management;

Part3 Information about:

• ‘Sound Affects’ – Julian’s new book and

• The Listening Society – the community and resource hub launching on 1st May 2025, for anyone who wants to improve their own, or ‘the world’s’ listening.

I first met Julian more than ten years ago, after someone recommended his TED talk:

 ‘Why architects need to use their ears’. 

In this programme, he also mentions:

 ‘How to speak so that people will listen’.

Over the last eleven years, I’ve recorded three shows with him.  In the week after I released the latest (on 28th March), , one very practical application for everything we talked about was highlighted by a single word, which was all over the media – ‘change’.

The biggest story on that front was (and, as I write, is) Donald Trump’s (still changing) tariffs on goods imported into the US.

There are exceptions to every rule, of course; but generally, we humans find change a challenge.  You don’t need me to tell you that if you’ve ever had to make an unpopular  alteration within your business; but there’s no avoiding it, is there?!

From the trivial to the transformative, change is a fact of life – which regularly sparks, or escalates, another fact of life – conflict.

There’s plenty of advice available, on and offline; but looking at some of it recently, I notice it tends to be heavily focused on ‘sending the right message’ – framing the proposal as a positive; telling a story which will inspire support; converting doubters into advocates– who will then help you convert others.

Those are all great points – but they only deal with one side of the process.  Yes, listening appears on several lists of tips – but I haven’t found it at the top of any of them.

On the show, Julian asks the question:

‘How can you lead people if you don’t know what their strengths and weaknesses are – what drives them, what motivates them – what pisses them off?!’

Never is that more relevant than when you need to lead people through a change they don’t want – particularly if they weren’t expecting it.

I’m not suggesting you should be expected to balance everybody’s reactions to every decision you need to make for the business.  That would be hard enough within your team – and impossible if it involved all your stakeholders!  Your organization would end up paralysed - or

worse …

Some things just have to happen, however painful that may be for anyone – or everyone.  Surgery hurts! – but you can manage the pain levels.

When someone has a change imposed on them, the first reaction is very often shock – closely followed by a hastily erected defensive wall, made up of reactions like:

‘I don’t like this!  I don’t want it – we don’t need it – it’s ridiculous – what are they thinking of?!’ and even, ‘It’s not fair!’  (You might think of that as the cry of the greater-spotted teenager – but adults say it too – in our heads, if not out loud!)  You’ve probably heard it all before – and, if you’re honest with yourself, there must have been times when you’ve said any, or all, of those things.  I definitely have.

If you’re the one who has to break the bad news, I know it’s tempting to put it off; but once you know the deed has to be done, the earlier you open up the conversation – and make listening a priority – the better.

You can use the two tools Julian shares on the show: 

He outlines ‘PAVE’:

·         Paraphrase,

·         Admit,

·         Validate and

·         Empathise.

He also takes us through ‘The four Cs’ of effective listening:

·         Consciousness,

·         Commitment,

·         Compassion and

·         Curiosity.

My own tips are to keep in mind:

1  Listening is a skillset:

It isn’t just one tool, it’s a whole kit, for different tasks.  Have a look at Julian’s TED talk:

 ‘Five ways to listen better’.

2  Perception begins with perspective - what we ‘see’ (or think we ‘see’) starts with ‘where’ we’re ‘looking from’:

(The quotation marks are there because I’m using those words to cover any kind of perception and perspective).

How each one of us responds to the prospect of change – whether we’ think it’s ‘AWFUL!’ or ‘AMAZING!’ (or any point in between) – and whether that reaction changes over time – is completely subjective.  It can be shaped by where, when or how we get the news – as well as who delivers it (among other things).

An adaptation which you think is ‘purely practical’ might hit someone on a very emotional level, if it goes to one of their basic needs.  (That’s a topic for a future pod) – although I’ll touch on it before the end of this post.

3  Humans are, on the whole, very adaptable:

That’s why we’ve not just survived, but actually thrived on this planet for so long!  Getting buy-in on a change has a lot in common with sales – your ‘buyer’ needs to know what’s in it for them.  Without listening to them, you can’t even begin to work out whether you can offer them any kind of benefit.

To put it another way, listening will tell you where the road blocks are – which will make it so much easier to plan your route.

4  The biggest challenge most people have with change is choice:

It’s a long-accepted fact in psychology that the overwhelming majority of people will stay longer, give more – and accept greater inconvenience to themselves – if it it feel like a choice.  Autonomy doesn’t appear in every explanation of basic human needs – but I believe it is one, especially in individualistic cultures, like the UK and US.  If we feel we can:

Make choices about what happens and

Have some control over how we respond,

An ‘AWFUL!’ change can become an ‘inconvenience’ – and, eventually, an obstacle might even turn into an opportunity.

5  Finally, think it through:

Hopefully this is obvious to you – but it isn’t to everyone.  I haven’t experienced this myself (thankfully!), but I’ve heard first-hand accounts of what it’s like to work in an environment where a ‘big plan!’ is announced by the boss on Friday – with a three-day deadline for ‘ideas on making it happen!’ – so the team has to work through the weekend.  Although by Monday morning, the boss has changed his mind.  No, I’m not talking about the White House …

If you’ve seen Abraham Maslow’s ‘Hierarchy of human needs and motivations’, you’ll know that just above our survival requirements, (like air, food and water) are our security needs.  Yes, that covers essentials like shelter; but it also extends to the need for other kinds of structure in our lives – the kind that comes from a level of predictable routine.  The alternative (as we’ve seen recently) is fear of the unknown – which obviously damages motivation – and relationships.  As I said earlier, you need to open the conversation ‘once you know the deed has to be done’; but half-formed plans thrown into reverse by foreseeable (though unforeseen) consequences, do nobody any favours, do they?

The most effective long-term change management strategy is to build a conversation culture – so that’s what I’m aiming to help you do.

Julian calls listening ‘the gateway to understanding’.  So on the next show, I’ll start looking at barriers that block the gate – beginning with language.

In the meantime, to get hold of a copy of ‘Sound Affects’ by Julian Treasure, click here.

For a month’s free trial of The Listening Society, click here, and

Click here for more information about Julian, including his:

• previous books,

• TED talks, and

• Work with organisations,

If you need help with any aspect of conflict management at work, come and talk to me!